OMGosh… Guy, did we just solve the case?

By Girl & Guy

So, Guy and I were sort of riffing on some things I was noticing while rewatching the first episode…  and we may have stumbled onto something…  Here is how it went down…

So, I kept thinking about what everyone keeps saying… that Nic Pizzolatto said in an interview that all the relevant clues to figure out who the killer is are in the first episode…  so naturally, my brain goes to that scene in Silence of the Lambs (because come on people…  isn’t it obvious that there are a lot of little nods to that trilogy in this show?) where Hannibal tells Agent Starling that all the clues she needs to find the killer are in the folder. So, naturally I decide to rematch the scene where Starling and her academy buddy talk through the the file…  And when I was looking for that scene, I saw this:

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See that?  It looks sort of True Detective-esque doesn’t it. So, I thought just MAYBE I’m onto something.  So, what did Starling do?  She went back where the first girl who was murdered lived and looked around. She was looking for people who might see her everyday.  I decided to really pay close attention to this idea.  Dora Lange was the first victim of this killer who was drugging, binding, stabbing and then posing the bodies publicly.  But when Rust and Marty went out to investigate Dora’s murder, they visited her neighborhood, they found that another girl who had lived there was missing; Marie Fontenot… though she was never found. And then on the road sign we see that  Stacy Berhart was murdered two years before Marie went missing.  So we’ve got a situation where the second to go missing was not found at all but the the second found was the third killed…  Oi… this confused me.  This will come back up later when Guy reason’s it out…

So, my brain skips back to Rust talking about how the murder was perpetrated…

Screen Shot 2014-03-07 at 11.37.25 AM Screen Shot 2014-03-07 at 11.26.47 AM Screen Shot 2014-03-07 at 11.26.53 AM Screen Shot 2014-03-07 at 11.26.59 AM Screen Shot 2014-03-07 at 11.27.04 AM Screen Shot 2014-03-07 at 11.32.19 AM Screen Shot 2014-03-07 at 11.32.47 AM Screen Shot 2014-03-07 at 11.33.49 AM Screen Shot 2014-03-07 at 11.35.51 AM

Screen Shot 2014-03-07 at 11.37.25 AM

The images of the crime scene and the way that Rust was talking about them didn’t jive for me.  He was using all the right words to describe the scene but the intent was wrong.The assumption of who the killer was, was just wrong.  This is where Marty was right about Rust bending the narrative.  To me, this girl looked lovingly draped across an alter. She had signs all over and around her.  She was a giant clue wrapped up with a ribbon (okay, rope) for the police.  At this point, I said to Guy,

“Hey Guy, The more I think about it… the more and more I think the killer is an anti hero trying to expose the cult..  because of what happened to him.

Then Guy responded: Another point in favor of the killer being a cast off from the cult, or striking back at the cult, is that the painting of the kneeling woman in the church was after it was burned down, and that was one of the churches where Light of the Way was housed.  Did he burn it down, and then paint the image?  So it’s not the cult using the burned down church, it’s someone burning down the church and then painting his message in warning or whatever to the cult…

We kicked the idea of the painting around a bit and I moved on with my rewatching of the show and found this: During a conversation with Sheriff Tate regarding Marie Fontenot he said:

Screen Shot 2014-03-07 at 12.51.17 PM

Baby Daddy?  That is what someone calls the man who is biologically a child’s father…  And since we know that our Deer Princess cult likes to keep things in the family, we had to go on the assumption that most likely Marie Fontenot was taken by he who is surrounded by his children of all types, Sam Tuttle…  So, that places Marieat one of the Tuttle compounds… safe and sound and perhaps not murdered at all…

And then Guy said, all suspenseful like…

“What if…

The Killer…

Is Marie Fontenot!”

I had been actually thinking Maggie at that point but it’s just so implausible…  but I could really sink my teeth into Marie…  Yeah… that was a bad Hannibal Lecter pun… my bad.

Guy continued:  It sort of fits with these killings being aimed at the cult.

Oh… you don’t know this but Guy and I at some point, also talked about the idea that whomever was setting up  these very public displays of exactly what the cult was doing to girls and young women, was probably trying to get the attention of the cops or the very least just trying to expose the cult to anyone who would pay close enough attention to the maps that this killer was drawing for someone to read.

We started wondering how if it was Marie, she might have gotten that body up onto that bridge all by herself?  We talked about our assumption that one of those pregnant photos was here and that perhaps she had had a son…

I kept seeing a son in the photo in the church… can you see it?  The goggly eyes? {Cthulhu:  You mean the boobies?  Oh wait, if I look in just the right way, those boobies do sort of look like eyes…}

DT Church painting boy

At this point I brought up the fact that during my rewatch, I noticed that the detectives were CONSTANTLY calling the killer “HE.”  It wasn’t just an old…  he.  It felt more like “!! HE !!!” Lots of exclamation.  After I pointed that out Guy said, “That’s actually what made me first think about it. They say that so so so so often, more than ‘the killer’. Right under their nose indeed.”

After discussing the plausibility of perhaps a son helping Marie with the killings…  we decided that her son would have been too young (if she even HAD a child of any sort.)  Then, after I had tried to look a few things up to help me with this theory (Like the article from the NY Times about a real louisiana church shut down for child abuse).  Guy and I had a spontaneous moment of brilliance:

Girl: “Here is my idea for who lucy is!!!”

Guy: “?!?!? Lucy?”

Then for a moment we didn’t know what each other was talking about…  but when the conclusion cleared, we had both come to the conclusion that Marie Fontenot was not only alive, but she was hiding in plain sight as the lovely prostitute Lucy:  Please note her beautiful tattoo work… that is 5 black stars on either arm with an infinity symbol at the crook of her elbow.  Lovely.

Screen Shot 2014-02-26 at 1.26.25 PM

What we concluded about Lucy was that…  She was blonde, had star tattoos and was the only one who had the infinity sign tattooed on her… which all together has to mean something, right?

After this we found out via this conversation: The cops were talking about which of their prostitute contacts they had talked to that day regarding the Dora Lange case…  Screen Shot 2014-03-07 at 1.50.56 PM

Screen Shot 2014-03-07 at 1.51.02 PM

Screen Shot 2014-03-07 at 1.51.18 PMAt first it seems confusing… who is this Ray guy?  But then you see in the third frame that Danny Fontenot is HER uncle!  But then the conversation was interrupted by Tuttle and the guys from the Task Force.

After a little more chatting… which I think Guy can fill you in on…  I said to him…

Girl: “Hey… what if a lot of the girls are in on it? The black star tattoo girls…”

Guy: “a gang of the lost. The castoffs. I love it!  boy, that sure would turn the ‘girls are powerless victims’ trope on it’s fucking ear!  And think of all the black stars we’ve seen.”

And then a cascade of thoughts spewed out of my head…

Girl: “And that the murdered girls sacrificed themselves? There were no signs of struggle on the girls… except ligature marks…But that would be to make it look like a murder. And the girls were way drugged. And Dora could have been hanging with the giant to get drugs. And Dora could have been hanging with the giant to get drugs.”

Guy: “oh man I’m absolutely loving this theory.”

So…  There you have it.  We think that all the black star tattooed girls were abused by the costume wearing cult and have formed their own vigilante group in order to get revenge on the cult for all of their dastardly and sickening deeds…  And this is our little angel at the helm…

Can you see her halo?

Screen Shot 2014-03-07 at 12.03.55 PM

Feel free to mock our theory….  We don’t care.  We have gone swimming in the DT Kool aid!  We took the assignment… to solve the crime (which is, who has killed two women and posed them in public places) based on the clues in the first episode.  I just hope we get at least a B+

Ok, my turn.  Guy here.

I’m thrilled with this theory, even if it doesn’t pan out.  It works for me in a number of ways.  First off, there have been so many little lines of dialog about the answer being right under one’s nose, and then Hart’s comment about bending the narrative to fit a theory based on assumptions (the speech he gives Rust when Rust first speculates that the girl was a prostitute, at the crime scene).  As with much of the dialog in this show, I think some of this was aimed at us.

And also, in the first episode, we see some very conspicious black stars, even though we haven’t been introduced to the symbol formally yet.  We see them on Lucy, and on another girl interviewed by Rust and Hart.  Black stars everywhere, on the bodies of women.

It really got me thinking about what assumptions I’d made, what fundamental assumptions that could be completely off base.  As girl laid out, those boiled down to:  The killer is a He, Marie is Dead, and someone involved in the Cult set up Dora and the other girls bodies to be found by the police.

If one backs up and questions those fundamental assumptions, all sorts of new vista’s open up.  Perhaps the biggest question, which I’ve seen asked a few times out there on the intertubes, but not all that seriously, is WHY in the hell would a cult which clearly seems to want to remain hidden draw so much attention to itself by displaying the murder of Dora Lange so prominently?  And then later with the girl trussed up on the bridge.  Why would they bring so much attention to themselves?  And then it snapped:  They didn’t.  This is someone’s way of bringing attention to the cult, to ‘out’ them.  They can’t go to the police directly and make a report or anything.  We know the police are involved in covering up the cult’s activities.  But by putting it out in such a public fashion, perhaps someone outside the reach of the Cult might take note and track it down (and this is just what happened).  And what happens in the CID when the case goes public?  Good old Rev. Tuttle descends with all speed to take over the investigation, and make sure it gets spun just the way he wants it to be.

Also, it just occurs to me that this could be the very reason the second murder, the one on the bridge, has been suppressed by the department.  They don’t want the cult exposed!!  We now know the cult has police ties, so if they really wanted to publicly display their handiwork, why use your power to cover it up!?

This shocking idea led us to consider the idea of the killer being a woman, maybe even Marie!  Both we the audience and the detectives have assumed that Marie is dead, but we have NO evidence of that.  None!  In fact we know she didn’t die in the filmed ceremony, because we have pictures of her pregnant, which clearly is post VHS tape.

So, where is Marie?!?!  Is she Lucy?  I strongly suspect that the children fathered by this insane cult, at least the girl children, end up as prostitutes in that ‘Camp’ by the lake-the trailer park, or elsewhere.  And they probably bear the mark, black stars.  Could Lucy be Marie?  That I really don’t know, but it would make sense.

But how freaking great would it be if when Marty and Rust finally corner ‘the killer’ it is none other than Marie Fotenot.  They are looking down the barrell at one of the very victims they are seeking to avenge!  Plus, this would turn the entire “women as poorly drawn victims’ complain completely on its ear!!!!

It’s possible that whoever displayed the bodies didn’t even kill the girls, but merely took their bodies and displayed them.  We’re told that Audrey hadn’t eaten for a few days, and had been on her back.  Maybe she died, and Marie, or whatever avenging angel, took her body, displayed it, complete with Five Devil Catchers (to offer up yet another clue), in order to enact her revenge, and bring down justice on the Cult.

I have to say, the more I think about this the more I like it.  It works in all sorts of ways.  Nic has said that we meet the killer in the first episode.  We did NOT meet Erroll in the first episode.  We did meet Lucy, and other wayward souls.

He also said he wasn’t out to trick us.  I don’t think this would constitute a trick.  I think it fits in perfectly with the themes of the show, while also giving us a nice surprise, and demolishing the criticism of the show giving a one dimensional victim mentality to its female characters.

It is very possible that every single thing we’ve laid out in this post is utter crap.  But for now, this is my favorite theory, and answers more of the nagging questions than any of the other over arching theories I’ve heard.  I can’t wait to see if we’re even a little close.  And if we are, I’m afraid I won’t be able to give a big ol’ I TOLD YOU SO!!!!

 

EDIT:  One more astounding correlation brought up by girl.  Remember when Dora’s ex-husband said Dora told him she was going to become a Nun?  What do Nun’s do?  They live only with other women!  Who would this group of other women be?!?!?!?!?   Girl notes that Nun’s who get pregnant have often committed suicide…

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33 thoughts on “OMGosh… Guy, did we just solve the case?

  1. First off thank you for all the work you both put into this blog Its easy to see how much work you both put into this site its very informative an just plain fun and im sure its a labor of love for the both of you.After reading alot interviews of the creator (Nic P.) And also watching the behind the scene for each episode on HBO.go ive come to realize that Nic P is not trying to mislead us or give us a suprise twist ala Se7en or The Usual suspects but because of his writing technique he has set our own minds upon themselves to construct all kinds of speculation an theories no matter how wild an entertaining they are about the possible outcome. His writing an Cary F cinematography is a stroke of genius, achieving what Robet Chambers book (the King in yellow) only writes about and that is this, a story about story that once you read it you go INSANE,! Which is what has happen to all of us who love this show so much. Thankyou guys again for everything.

    • Thank you so much Gary! It is a labor of love, but what had really made it worth it had been sharing it and finding that people enjoy it!

      For me, the broad strokes of this theory don’t constitute a typical twist ending, and so isn’t ruled out by what Nice had said, but that’s probably because we came up with it! Ha! I certainly won’t be disappointed if this isn’t at all what happens, and if the yellow king is a boat, or summer camp or something. I trust this creative team to end the story they have been telling just as it should be done. But…who knows!

  2. This may totally be off and someone may have mentioned it already but I was also watching the first episode again and I am wondering if the first scene before we jump to the interview with Hart is not actually the bringing of Dora’s body to the tree but actually the end of the season with Cohle or Hart bringing the killer out and burning down Carcosa. It’s a jump and I am likely very wrong (especially since they mentioned the area not being scheduled for a burn) but if is the case one could argue that we were “introduced” to the killer in the first episode.

    Probably off my wagon. I have really enjoyed reading your blog (just found it two days ago). It will be interesting to see how things pan out in two days.

    • Hi Jacob, Girl here… Guy has actually mentioned this as a possibility… That the beginning scene was really the end. This would also illustrate Rust’s theory of time repeating itself.
      We are glad you found us. We are having so much fun with this show & the more, the merrier!

  3. In the preview for E8 we hear what I presume to be the killers voice and its a very disturbing deep heavy accented voice and it says (Its been weeks since I left my mark weather they had eyes to see it)….skip scene then (This is Carcossaa…..Take of your mask!) Can wait to meet HIM….. oops I meant THE killer not him lol

    • AHAHAHAHAAAA! That is hilarious! I never noticed until I read it. It’s as though Nic Pizzolatto is speaking directly to us (through the killer) and saying… I’ve spent 8 weeks showing you want I want you to see… did you see it or are you too busy making up stories about vigilante hookers? Ha.
      What I want to know is, where did this accent come from? Is Hannibal Lecter really the killer? (I’m kidding).

  4. I figured out who the yellow king is…….its all part of HBOs big roll out premier of Game of thrones an the richest man in the seven kingdoms the man who shits gold is also the yellow king and that man is …..Tywin Lannister! Dun dun dun! HBO will do anything for ratings… shameless.

  5. Ok, so I cheated a little bit and looked at the credits for episode 8 via IMDB. A few things here. Going off of what Nic said about the killer making an appearance in the very first episode, going off of the credits for episode 1 vs. episode 8, there really aren’t that many people it could be. Steve Geraci seems to be a likely candidate. But how exactly, since Marty and Rust have him held at gunpoint on a boat? If you watch the episode 8 preview, it begins with a mans wicked voice saying “its been weeks since I left my mark, whether (or that?) they had eyes to see.” “This is Carcosa, take off your mask.” Then the woman saying, “he’s going to come for you, he’s worse than anybody.” So clearly the killer is a man, right?

    Also, something else that caught my attention when looking over the credits. Remember when Marty tells Maggie that he’s changed, he’s quit drinking and he’s going to group therapy called Promise Keepers? You never saw or heard anything else about it. If you look at the episode 8 credits, there are two men listed as Promise Keepers speakers. Interesting, wonder what that is all about?

    • I’m with Gunner: I feel the killer is a male. Based on Nic’s assurance that it’s going to be straight forward, that we see the killer’s face in ep 1, and that we finally meet the killer in episode 7, I feel that it must be Errol who does the killing. Assuming that Errol is the green eared spaghetti monster (GESM), we do see his face in episode 1. It is rendered by a sketch artist as the GESM. However, just because he is the killer doesn’t mean he is the person who displayed the corpse of Dora Lange or the new murder victim.
      I like Guy & Girl’s theory about the cast aways. I’m leaning towards them not killing or committing suicide but displaying the bodies so that it must be investigated.

      • Hi Roz, Girl here… the trouble with straight forward is that I don’t even think most people are talking about the same killer. Which murders are we talking about? Are we all on the same page? We have the someone(s) posing dead women pumped full of LSD and Meth adorned in antlers, we have someone(s) abducting and killing women pumped full of LSD and leaving them in storm flooded areas, we have a cult, Someone is running around leaving devil catchers where women have been abducted, dressing up girls, doping them and raping them, impregnating them and then what? We don’t know. We don’t know if they are killing the girls or letting them live on the compound with Papas Tuttle… we also want to find out if this Yellow King is a real man, a god or perhaps a boat(?)… If one person is doing all of these things, they sure as hell must be exhausted… So, I guess it all depends on asking the right questions… I would really like to know who is posting the bodies because that, in all of this, is the most interesting act, IMO. I think we already know that Errol is doing the killing… I could be wrong though. And then I’d like to know just what the cult really did with these little girls and their babies. Personally, I don’t think that video is a snuff film…

  6. Hi Gunner… Girl here. Did you ever notice that whenever that there are some instances where Marty takes off his promise keepers ring? Not his wedding ring… but his promise keepers ring. A good example is when he beat up those two boys in the jail. There are a myriad of reasons this could be… I mean, imagine the damage that ring could do to his finger if it got all crushed from punching someone in the jaw… or it could leave a mark and be evidence later. But I always got the feeling he was doing it because he was about to do something immoral. He’s either protecting the promise keepers from being looked at or he is taking his ring off because he is breaking his promise. Like he took his wedding ring off when he was cheating and thus breaking a promise to Maggie. It just depends on whether the promise keepers are good guys or bad buys. Who knows?

    • Nice, good point there. I definitely noticed the ring, which looks like he wears it on his other ring finger, but didn’t make the connection that that is the ring he takes off in that scene. Just curious what coming back to the Promise keepers in the finale has to do with anything?…guess we shall find out.

      • Girl Here… I’m not sure if this has anything to do with anything but here is a link to the real promise keepers. Check out their logo… Notice what color the K is bathed in… Just another organization that the Yellow King has seeped into? (and for me… at the point… I feel like the Yellow King isn’t a he… it’s a frame of mind. Much like I think Carcosa is a frame of mind or even a place in the brain that you can go to whenever you reach an ecstatic state whether through drugs or through the various trans and possession states that can be reached through various techniques (think speaking in tongues). The Yellow King could just be an invisible godhead who walks around in Carcosa (a location in your brain) his teachings are the landscape of this place and can be accessed through more drugs or even triggers (like with Tuttle’s maid) to bring their brain into a trans state. Not sure that made any sense… those were just remnants from college when I was studying Cults.

      • Really curious but in the flashbacks to ’95 _before_ Marty is discovered for his affair with Tragnetti he has that ring on. He is wearing it in the car on the way to see the Dora Lange crime scene.
        Is there a moment in the series where that ring is said to be a promise keeper ring? I’ve been thinking it was but I can’t remember where I came up with that assumption.

      • OMGosh… I am spreading false information! GAH! I SWORE that when Marty tells Maggie that he is in a program, “Promise Keepers” that he held up his ring for her to see… I am so wrong. I checked and he didn’t. Ug! For all I know that is his High School Class right. Man… I feel like I failed you guys. I hope you will forgive me. I could buy everyone who feels their theory making went in a wrong direction because of this a pony?

  7. What if the woman in the preview for E8 is Erolls mother, and Hart puts the gun to her head cause he found out that she knows about him an his activities? Be aware if the town of St Martin pops up, cause thats were Errol and Dora Lang are both from.

  8. Hey Derek… I like it. When I first saw that woman I went back and looked at the photo of Rust at the Charles Lake murder crime scene because I remember seeing an older woman who looked like her. I was wrong (I think). Maybe add some years and drug use and it MIGHT be the same woman? It’s probably nothing though…

  9. Nice theory. I’ve been thinking about why the cult would expose themselves, but didn’t make so much connections like you did, Nice work.

    Just one thing: “Nic has said that we meet the killer in the first episode.” Where he said that? I’m aware that Nic told us that 85% of what we should know it’s on the first episode.

    And i’m still thinking about that beginning. That fire being set up, that dark scene where it looks like there’s someone carrying another person… i don’t know. “Time it’s a flat circle” they said. Could that be the ending of the series? That scene doesn’t make much sense if is not about this theory…

    Nice job with this blog, and sorry about my bad english, i’m from Brazil. 🙂

  10. Hey Rafael, here is the link to the interview with Nic Pizzolato where he states that they show the killer in episode one. It’s in his answer to the very first question.

  11. What if that very first dark scene that you mention is the killer an we are seeing him we just dont know what he looks like? We technically see him.

    • Derek, that thought crossed my mind as well. However, Nic specifically says “We showed the killers face in episode 1.” I’m thinking that scene in the beginning is really the end.

  12. At first, I was really big on the Lucy=Marie theory but the ages don’t add up. When Dora in is discovered in ’95 Marie has been missing for 5 years. Do they ever say how old she is when she went missing??? That would help a lot. She looks to be at the most 11 years old in the video so that would put her around 16 years old when Dora is revealed and we meet Lucy. Lucy is older than 16.

    • Ah, and I just found an argument for my point that makes my argument superfluous: On the recap of ep 7 Nic discusses the revealing of the VHS and discusses how he wanted to avoid bludgeoning the audience with gore while Marty watches the ritualistic sacrifice. He specifically says the VHS is of Marie’s sacrifice.

    • We worked out the ages too… it seemed okay to us since there are quite a few female child killers out there…. the true story told in Heavenly Creatures comes to mind… if you look it up, there are a lot. I have no idea how I know this… it’s just something I read about not too long ago for some reason. Oh, I was looking up Childhood Sociopathathy. So, the age thing didn’t detour us from our theory. Still doesn’t discount the cult survivors as possible posers of the bodies to expose the cult.

  13. Nic is really ruining my fun here… DAMN YOU NIC!!!! I really hoped they hadn’t killed her. So… WTF is up with the pregnant little girls if they rape and kill them. So many questions. Still… WhoTF is Ray Fontenot? I think maybe I’ve just watched WAY too much Buffy. I can’t get the notion of all these girl vigilante’s running around trying to bring down evil from the inside… Damn you Joss Whedon!

  14. I guess it depends on how cagey Nic P is being in his interviews,as mentioned above we see the sketch of the green ear spaghetti monster so that could be his face an in the opening scene that could be Eroll dragging Dora Lang to the tree where he tied her up. Just depends on how you interpret his words.We will find out very soon! Cant friggen wait!

  15. So, after thinking about it a little more, I think you’re right. I think Errol is the killer. He has to be. I think that’s what they wanted us to know at the end of episode 7. The question is why? I don’t believe that he is part of the cult. I think he is an outcast of the Tuttle/Childress cult. (That explains the scars, supposedly given to him by his own father). And I believe that the killings and him displaying the bodies are his way of acting out to try and expose the cult, because of what they did to him. The questions that remain unanswered are.. Is he the yellow king? Is the yellow king even a person? What does the Hart family, specifically Maggie and Audrey, have to do with anything? And how will it all end for Marty and Rust? We’re only hours away from finding it all out, can’t wait!

    BTW Girl and Guy, great blog, hope you do it again for season 2.

    • Thanks for then lnterview link. And i think this is the most reasonable theory. He wants atention, so he’s Kipling again.

      Anyway, i will stop trying to discover and just wait for the EP 8. Just a few more hours to go… 😛

  16. Pingback: daily 03/09/2014 | Cshonea's Blog

  17. In Episode 1 Rust and Marty visit a black church. The minister tells them that folks have skinned black cats and nailed them to his door. Are they being “warned” to not become involved the deaths occurring in their community? Then Rust seems to be looking intently on the cross. It is connected by rope. He noted during the investigation of the body that rope was used to tie her hands, feet, etc. I wonder if the black spiritual community is exposing the evil of the group perpetrating these crimes — over decades. They come upon a body and cry, “Look and see!” No one can count on the law enforcement community to investigate these murders. In 2012 they remind folks — “It is still happening!” The two black detectives are on their way to the black church at the end of episode 7. I haven’t seen anyone speak about the scene in the black church in episode one. The voice in Episode 8 sounds like a black islander.

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